Tavern on the Meta

good night, @Moshe

5:25 AM

Morning all

6:15 AM

Hello

7:17 AM

Is it a bad sign that I down-vote more than I up-vote in the last few days?

woah.

@OctavianDamiean nope

I am editing questions Is there any issue in it?

means people even dont know how to post question

I was thinking to down-vote and question get down-voted.

editing questions to improve them is perfectly fine

down voting the question?

well that depends on the question

7:28 AM

beginner may not know the basics things

by basic things you mean?

my vote distribution on SO is 937up, 55 down.

So, He try to ask the question on SO before searching or may he is unable to find very basic things.

I generally reserve downvotes for blatantly wrong answers or question being a big heap of ugly copy+paste code

well that is not the problem of SO then, if he fails to find basic information then he has a way bigger problem

7:30 AM

But the the aim of SO is Q & A....stackoverflow.com/faq

have you actually read those faqs?

I read and reading again since morning all faqs

In general,I am saying that beginner may faces issue in solving a very simple problem also and he is not getting solution for such basic issues on SO or internet.

I mean all are not champs,some have issue with technical skills,some lack in English or many even don't know how to search on internet or there may many other issues.

I'm not sure what's your point

@Sathya On SO that number goes up to 70-something regularly, now that 10k users can see the flag number

@YiJiang indeed, on SU it generally averages at ~ 3-5

M'vy

7:43 AM

hi there

hi @Mvy

Hi

\o/ 98% wohoo!

nice! :)

@ManjotSingh what do you want to tell us with that?

nothing just discussing as such.I was thinking users get demotivated with downvoting of the question

1) add comment that question is poor 2)improve your question else question will be downvoted

7:52 AM

@ManjotSingh but if we encourage them without downvoting they will not have any scope for improve....

I mean users should get chance to improve his question then question should be downvoted

@ManjotSingh no one will listen dude... if you comment

@Damodar that's a misconception.

if he will not listen then feel free to down-vote the question

M'vy

I saw counter example of this @Damodar

7:53 AM

I second that, some will

44 secs ago, by ManjotSingh

if he will not listen then feel free to down-vote the question

but the point is, if he improves then I can always remove my down-vote and even up-vote

@ManjotSingh so if you comment a question for poor framting or etc

like that there will be many question, then there will be twice work for moderators to check agian for downvoting

thats nothing to do with moderators

@OctavianDamiean ya you are right

7:56 AM

Many users start down-vote the question without mentioning him that question is poor

@OctavianDamiean but for first time if we stop him by downvoting, he may not make same mistake again

@ManjotSingh that we cannot insist them to comment. Its their responsibilty to make others to know , what is the mistake and make them learn

Damodar He will not come on SO....If you stop him without mentioning him that the question is poor by downvoting

@ManjotSingh i have already answered i think....

Ok thank you.

@ManjotSingh you most welcome my friend..... :)

user163704

8:19 AM

Hi

@user163704 Hello!

8:59 AM

if you want to play with the new beta faq try meta.stackoverflow.com/newfaq

3

also note the behavior if you open the anchored URL in a new window: meta.stackoverflow.com/newfaq#deletion

neat

<!-- only apply this if JavaScript is available, hence wrap in document.write -->
<script type="text/javascript">
    document.write('<style type="text/css"> \
        .col-section > .col-detail { display:none; } \
        .col-section > .col-summary, .col-summary.only, .col-section > h2 {display:block;}, .col-section > h3 {display:block;} \
        .col-section.expandable { cursor: pointer } \
        <\/style>');
</script>

@JeffAtwood the anchors remain the same?

Uh...

yep, the anchors seem to be the same

9:03 AM

The highlight on highlight style lack contrast

@YiJiang what?

I would like to fold a lot of the community faq into the official faq

now that we have 2 levels of collapse

@balpha Why not $('body').addClass('onlyApplyTheseStylesIfThereIsJavaScript')?

Sounds like a good idea. Some detail, then fully expandable if needed for in-depth.

A: Deletion of comment discussions

@jcolebrand looks like you're not a regular on Skeptics Meta :)

4

We're experimenting with a new feature, codenamed "Get-A-Room", to offer a solution for this. It's currently active on Meta Stack Overflow only, but will pretty soon be active everywhere (with a higher threshold on meta sites than on normal sites). When we detect that there's a back-and-forth di...

9:06 AM

two levels actually, so the "Bounty" section would start with a Twitter-length explanation of bounty.. click once to get 4-8 subtopics, all with twitter-length explanations.. click those to get the INSANE detail

@YiJiang Why? Because that's architecturally clean?

I don't want to do that when the DOM is ready; I want it immediately

@JeffAtwood a bit confusing at first, especially if you follow the anchored link, then click on collapse to see it's no longer there..

@JeffAtwood Will this evetually completely replace the Community FaQ?

suggestions for improvement welcome!

* so long as I agree with said suggestions

4

@YiJiang this seems right up your alley actually

Thought experiment: where have you seen a better faq design than the one we have in beta now? and what can we adapt from it?

Can faq in pictures/comic style so that user understand easily?

9:23 AM

we may add some stylized screenshots of certain UI elements, but they need to be network-global, that is, recognizable no matter what the specific site design is (e.g. gaming.se)

readonly attribute for the permalink input elements might be a good idea

There's some sort of highlighting here, but the contrast is to low for it to be visible

@Jeff When one expands the 'etiquette' header, the results are... underwhelming.

we can tweak the colors later, that's not really the main focus ATM

Whereas linking to the section itself - meta.stackoverflow.com/newfaq#behonest - gives a better experience.

It should understandable easily and fast.

9:26 AM

@badpssockpuppet Even after you expand everything there still doesn't seem to be enough content to warrent collapsing

@badpssockpuppet I agree with that, I'd expect a bit more.

not yet

    Etiquette

        Be nice, be honest.

     Be nice. →
     show more

     Be honest. →
     show more

    show more

but like I said, we're going to fold in (most of) the insane crazy detail seriously who cares this much community faq content for each section

since, you don't need to see it unless you expand.. twice

9:28 AM

With collapsing, the side menu is a little useless

It should single page view so that user explore it easily

how so? there's still a lot of scrolling

I'm not sure I like the fact that clicking on the expanded text collapses it

because user wont be having that much time to read

yeah we could stop that, since there is an explicit "collapse" link

9:30 AM

@YiJiang I disagree, the side links are still handy

So yeah, the other problem I see is there's no need to have two level headers in the 'Etiquette' section. The rest is very nice.

There should be Do's and Dont's view in picture or comic format

@badp that is just a demo of the two level collapse

I see.

imagineer a bunch of content in there and a lot more sections

I wonder if there is some way we could set up a Google Doc or something and let the community stitch all this together to assist

e.g. merge together the "best of" the community faqs

then I could write the twitter summary for each major and minor section

9:34 AM

Ivo did a google docs for the SU Blog, perhaps you could ask him?

@JeffAtwood Not verily. I was really thinking, you can either use a system with a single menu on the side / at the top, or collapsing content, but why both?

I like the new FAQ

Maybe it should be made a bit more visible that some of the paragraphs are collapsed or better expandable. Perhaps displaying the underline on the titles when you hover over the paragraph could help

I especially like the share feature :)

I know that I'm going to use it a lot

The get-a-room feature is amaze. Before this, I used to poke in random length discussions and tell them to get a room.

uh?

@OctavianDamiean On skeptics.

9:50 AM

typo again -_- sorry

it's only activated on Meta Stack Overflow currently, but we'll probably activate it elsewhere today

we wanted to play with the thresholds a little bit

ah brilliant!

Great

also I feel the random FAQ question thingy in the header should be visually separated a bit better, a HR might do it

9:54 AM

@balpha which room does it move to? or does it ask you to create one?

it automatically creates one

chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/390

does it import previous comments and deletes existing ones from the site, leaving an audit comment of sorts or somesuch?

currently it only imports, but we'll probably automatically delete them.

and note that this comment was automatically inserted

ok apparently there is a HR already but it is not that visible :/

Marc Gravell

Gah; our hosting provider won't route me in... I wonder how I offended them. No #stackoverflow for me for a while...

Tweeted by marcgravell on June 14, 2011 at 10:05 AM

sad now

10:07 AM

:O

11:02 AM

@balpha if someone is abusing chat flags is there anyway for you to know who did it ?

sure

can you check out who's messing with the flags in the infamous android room ?

I think each time I go in any android room my IQ drops by 5...

2

lol

btw Hello tombull89

One of the android room is actually not bad, we are trying our best to keep it sane

11:10 AM

yup

ya exactly Reno +1

it isn't that simple though

trying - I don't envy you guys.

I totally agree Octavian and Reno tried their level best to make Android Room best

I like the way Octavian handle the situation

since when?

11:16 AM

chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/15/android

in Android on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 min ago, by Octavian Damiean

that is not funny at all, not even not funny it is very very insulting

@balpha there's a guy basically comparing Reno with Hitler. Goodwins law again.

yeah, I see that. I mean "Since when does @ManjotSingh like the way Octavian handles the situation"

Actually I learnt a lot from Octavian & Reno

Even this affects my real life also.I am trying to improve and try to do things best

Oh he lost his write access.

Yes, that kind of behavior is not welcome. Not only in my room but everywhere.

I thought he is your friend.

11:25 AM

well yes he is but I don't tolerate such a behavior, no matter who he is.

anyways I like your attitude whenever I'll come Austria I'll meet you definitely

Hi Loic

Idea: Keep the improve option open after you approved the edit for idiots like me who click the approve button then think "no wait I can improve that post some more"

11:41 AM

I try Yi Jiang :)

Raynos

That expanding thing for those faqs can weuse it in questions (soon) ?

O Hi Raynos

How are you?

Raynos

>_>

what does it mean?

@OctavianDamiean: tell me when i m get write access back

11:53 AM

hope you are fine :)

Hi Sankar Ganesh

How are you?

@ManjotSingh wait

Ok,I'll wait for you.

@OctavianDamiean: mate , at which day i will get my access, i will wait upto that day

@OctavianDamiean: Mate pls replay

@ManjotSingh: yes I m fine, and what abt u

can't tell right now. It was a severe insult so it might take some time.

I am fine.What are you doing now a days?Have your problem get solved?

11:57 AM

@OctavianDamiean mate , it is ok atleast tell me ,how long i have to wait

@ManjotSingh no i m working now

I completed my Android app now a days working on Blackberry app

Blackberry Api's are quite difficult.

Do you have any idea of Blackberry app development Sankar?