Tavern on the Meta - 2011-03-15 (page 1 of 4)

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12:00 AM

er, is it recursive? I don't seem to see the recursive bit, but it looks recursive

it's recursive, but not self-recursive

ok, thought so

incredibly elegant.

very much so

I'll give it a little while, then accept that one

Just for S&Gs an oldie but a goodie.

153

Q: Save icon: Still a floppy disk?

Bear with me because this question doesn't pertain to an algorithm or any block of code. Rather, it deals with designing forms and applications. I'm working on a project where the user is able to save their work (most likely to the HDD but also possibly any other media, including floppy disks). ...

gui user-interface icons user-experience

lol, nice

12:14 AM

...did anyone else just get thrown out of the Tavern?

I didn't even know we had a bouncer.

nope

Not I

12:58 AM

Hi. I can't believe that I'm about to blast this into an Internet chat room but...

Wait. Is anyone here?

@Moshe Nope. We've all gone off to bed. I'm just an auto-reply script!

My iMac was stolen over the weekend.

Huh, how did a desktop computer get stolen?

code monkey not feeling great

A break in over the weekend.

A desktop computer is an all in one.

Long story. No more details right now. Gotta get back to studying.

@Moshe Yeah, I know what an iMac is. Still, why the computer over... eh, money, credit card, etc.

1:01 AM

@YiJ In an office. Not a residence.

Did you at least have backups? That sucks so much dude, yet another reason that I don't not have a laptop. Too easy for me to keep my hands on all the time

@Moshe go back to studying. You can tell us all about it later.

@drach it's a desktop. (didn't see the double negative) I have my important source code (Nippon et al) on my MacBook. I lost camp videos. Now, studying.

sigh :-)

Sorry to hear that.

Hope there's some justice

1:18 AM

LOL: Another year, another iPhone time slip

@GeorgeMarian that's funny, I didn't have that problem.

Neither did I. Well, there was an issue w/ the alarm not wanting to allow anything 2 AM-ish.

I can imagine. However, I would've not expected that. Congrats to the iPhone for acknowledging that no alarm could be set around 2AM ...

It kept rolling it back 1 hour, despite the fact that the time had updated correctly. Obviously, the time was determined by the cell network.

@drachenstern lol

@GeorgeMarian yeah, that's something these articles seem to forget

1:22 AM

I had to wake up to at 3:15 AM to drive the gf to work, so I could have the car for an interview today. She had to wake up at 2 AM. =/

Apple has no control over that

Yours didn't rollover yesterday? Mine did

@drachenstern Right, though They still eff-up something related to the time. :)

Speaking of yesterday, I'm fast burning through the hours to make today tomorrow. Bed is seriously in my future.

Ahhh

@drachenstern The time changed just fine. But, we couldn't set the alarm correctly for 2 AM. Note, at that point 2 AM was the following day, after the time change. :)

ooooooh

I was curious if that's what you meant sometime in the middle of the story

1:24 AM

So yah, Apple still effed up something relatively simple. In their defense, it's something that everyone effs up at one point or another.

In fact, I set one of the clocks in the house 1 hour back. Thankfully, AT&T didn't eff up the time change. :)

In their defense: who the eff has to wake up at 2am? bloody bosses

My gf starts her work day at 4:30 AM these days. :(

I have the feeling my hosting provider is going to want to stab me soon.

nice

@mootinator What'd you do?

1:28 AM

Nothing seriously bad. Opened up a massive file in vi.

lol

lol

It shouldn't be too bad...

Vi and large files don't mix, unfortunately.

I've opened 20+gb files before

it takes a few minutes to load (ok, perhaps more than a few), but it works just fine

1:28 AM

@ircmaxell on your local machine? in vi?

Local machine, and on servers

I've opened 6MB files in nano before :D

albiet by accident

@drachenstern pffft 6MB

@Zypher aye

1:29 AM

Actually, my biggest problem with vi are extremely long lines.

did you notice the choice of editor I annotated?

come back when you've tried ot open a 1GB log file ;)

Come back when you try to open a 1gb log file over CIFS via a VPN...

@Zypher thanks no, that's what I have head/tail and > for

i'm ignoring incovienet truths

Rebecca Chernoff

1:30 AM

I once tried to open a 2gb text file in Notepad.

Um, oops.

heh

Rebecca Chernoff

It didn't go so well. q:

@RebeccaChernoff outch good thing you got lots o ram

I thought Notepad would do a check and error without trying to open it? I could be wrong...

Rebecca Chernoff

That was at my old job. It just froze. I went to lunch and came back and it was still frozen. I killed it to put it out of its misery at that point.

1:31 AM

@ircmaxell nope it'll happily try to open anytnig you feed

A forum I don't use generated a 1GB error log over the last two months. Damn spammers.

That sucks

ha

@Zypher That's exactly what I just did, lol. Meant to use tail.

Rebecca Chernoff

I didn't realize it was such a large file, heh. Though then we bought emeditor.com. Man, some of the files in that project were 4gb of plaintext

and the next year, even larger.

1:33 AM

wow

wow

my god what where you people doing ?

Jinx. ;)

dam

@RebeccaChernoff just save this in notepad and reopen the file to see a secret message ;) they say arr churn

1:33 AM

@Zypher Well, looking at the time, we're all doing in our homes I guess

@drachenstern Oh, man..that's just bad.

BTW, happy pi day. :)

@GeorgeMarian it's the bush hid the facts bug

@YiJiang meh i'm on the train

Bush hid the facts

Bush hid the facts is a common name for a bug present in the function IsTextUnicode of Microsoft Windows, which causes a file of text encoded in Windows-1252 or similar encoding to be interpreted as if it were UTF-16LE, resulting in mojibake. When "Bush hid the facts" is put in a new Notepad document and saved, closed, and reopened, the words "畢桳栠摩琠敨映捡獴" (Bi Benrenmotian Touyingjianmeng) appear instead. While "Bush hid the facts" is the sentence most commonly presented on the Internet to induce the error, the bug can be triggered by many sentences with characters and spaces in a particul...

@drachenstern Heh, i'm already there.

Rebecca Chernoff

1:35 AM

@Zypher We took in the data for all accounts in one 3rd party's format, and had to manipulate it into another 3rd party's format.

@YiJiang meh i'm on the train

hahaha

@Zypher Meh, I'm double posting! :P

Rebecca Chernoff

Are you sure you aren't in the train?

sounds like uhhh a good racket

@YiJiang Speaking of the time. I must say it's great to still see some light outside at 6:30 PM. :)

1:37 AM

@GeorgeMarian bah, 6:30 is overrated

so ... apparently, is going home

Yeah, that's the once nice thing about dst

@drachenstern heh

I spent about 5 hours on the road today.

> About every ten months, somebody new discovers the Notepad file encoding problem.

lol

Much of that time I kept saying "slower traffic should move the right."

@YiJiang > The bug appeared for the first time in Windows NT 3.5 but was not discovered until early 2004.

lol

1:41 AM

@YiJiang lol

Nyuszika7H, Hungary

1 3 13

discussion support bug feature-request markdown status-bydesign formatting

Whiner squad, activate!

@YiJiang no thanks.

@YiJiang Speaking of which, @Benjol I'm not Hungarian, though pretty close. :)

Eh, eh!

Subscriber certifies to Stack Exchange that if Subscriber is an individual (i.e., not a corporate entity), Subscriber is at least 13 years of age.
No one under the age of 13 may provide any personal information to or on Stack Exchange (including, for example, a name, address, telephone number or email address).
Subscriber also certifies that it is legally permitted to use the Services and access the Network, and takes full responsibility for the selection and use of the Services and access of the Network.

grrrrrrrrrrrrr how do I make that reply and use fixedfont?

1:53 AM

@drachenstern Well you can't, I believe

Counterpoint: a)

@YiJiang I suppose not. My apologies on a thousand popup toasts

@YiJiang :p

and b)

(Hang on, SE's search function sucks, and I can't quite remember the title of the post in question)

4

Q: What is the view on accounts shared by multiple users on Stack Overflow?

It has been my understanding that accounts are suppose to be for a specific user. This user, Devart, is a company: LinqConnect by Devart. No doubt, this account has provided some quality answers. However, if a specific user cannot be identified, I don't think that the rep gain, rewards, or badges...

discussion user-accounts

@YiJiang lmao

1:57 AM

At no time was that legal document brought out in this discussion, even though clearly the first line of it is violated by accounts like these

> Subscriber certifies to Stack Exchange that if Subscriber is an individual (i.e., not a corporate entity)

@YiJiang but it doesn't say what applies if said subscriber is NOT an individual does it?

@drachenstern Well, it just doesn't get to use the service then, wouldn't it? (That is the logic being applied to the other case isn't it?)

I don't see that in legal tho ...

that is the logic being applied to the other case. Something is specifically outlined as not-allowed.

But in this case, I don't see a restriction that Subscriber must be a single corporeal entity.

@drachenstern Ah, well true

But the usual line from the top of the ToS goes:

> If you do not agree to all the terms and conditions of this Agreement, do not use the Services

(I hate myself)

@YiJiang well yeah. I imagine the concensus of the group of users behind that account agree in concert to use the services by the T&C

@YiJiang for playing devil's advocate?

2:03 AM

Hi folks.

@drachenstern No, for getting S&A wrong three times

See the history of that message

@Zypher there's an update.

oh, lol

See, even there I got it wrong. It's not S&A, its ToS or T&C. slap myself

@Moshe I think I should send you some more screenshots, but I'm not sure that I updated by then. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled tho. I'm running #10 I believe.

2:04 AM

@drach I didn't post 11 yet. Zypher is still on 4 or 5 or so.

@YiJiang that's ok, I'm about to leave for a bit. You can recompose in that time. I'll probably even fold laundry while I'm offline. Either that or vacuum.

@Moshe are you doing your konami on 11 then?

@drach Yea

ok, time for that regular ritual: dogwalking. foodeating. relaxmaking.

@Moshe then my latest screenshots may indeed be from #10.

bbl (probably)

I got a lot of winding down to do myself.

2:21 AM

Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?

> The US actor and the Libyan leader have produced some choice lines recently. Can you distinguish between them?

> You scored 4 out of a possible 10. Fair enough. One man's rave is another man's ... very similar rave

Awwww...

6/10 for me

Anyone have a good IDM/downtempo podcast they listen to?

Grrr... I don't know what's wrong here, but I've never being able to do anon. edits consistently successfully

The page somehow always ends up with 'Oops' around 50% of the time

<!-- Actual error:
XSRF validation: Request form value &#39;fkey&#39; did not match CurrentUser.XSRFFormValue-->

This is the error. Pokes @NickCraver @waffles with sharp stick

Why is it looking for the fkey anyway? I'm not logged in - this is an anon. edit

And... damn, I lost my edit when I hit the back button. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Same error repro'd in Firefox's private browsing mode. Now trying in Chrome...

Hmmm... the edit went through in Chrome. Interesting.

Ooo... hit the error in Chrome too -

<!-- Actual error:

XSRF validation: Request form value &#39;fkey&#39; did not match CurrentUser.XSRFFormValue-->

Michael Petrotta

2:51 AM

4 out of 10? I really thought I aced it.

@MichaelPetrotta The last question, man I'd never think anyone other than a madman would say that

heh: stackoverflow.com/suggested-edits/17818

Michael Petrotta

*Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body*
Words of a sane man, then?

dammit with the formatting

@MichaelPetrotta Well, it could be a line from his TV series, eh, right?

@MichaelPetrotta Multiline messages are not parsed

Michael Petrotta

Hmm. Maybe I'd better catch a few episodes. That sounds awesome.

@YiJiang: thanks, didn't know that.

3:23 AM

Ah, going home tomorrow \o/

@YiJiang Ill have a look at that, we still need the fkey dance to make it slightly harder for scripts

@waffles Just FYI, the Chrome error occurred when I tried to reedit the edit I just made

@YiJiang having trouble reproing in chrome ... is a user script colliding ?

I doubt so, but I can try again if you want me to

please ... with all user scripts disabled

3:38 AM

Well hang on, I need a post to edit!

Okay, just got one erroring out on GIS

Nope, didn't work even with GM disabled on Firefox

And it failed in Chrome too this time

I need to figure out a repro , can you post a bug on meta so this is not lost ?

Okay, sure

I can give you the GIS question in question too

But then again any post should do

cool

3:58 AM

@Moshe Hey, just went through the newest beta.. looks great! love the map changes.

4:16 AM

In case I haven't whined enough, I had my iMac stolen over the weekend.

@Fosco thanks.

Sorry my data connection dropped.

@Fosco how does it work, though? Any bugs?

5:02 AM

@Moshe None that I saw.. worked great and had my best game yet.

@Fosco cool.

Update coming soon.

Getting over my iMac.

Ok. Nite folks.

5:35 AM

@GeorgeMarian, oops, sorry! I'm not American, and I still mix up eastern european countries :(

Morning all, what's the latest on the <13 situation?

@Benjol Suspended, of course.

Read up a bit, I and @drachenstern talked a bit about it

@YiJiang, ok...

I'm wondering if @Nyu co-opted his parents into his account, it would count as a corporate account :)

5:51 AM

> I went from flag weight 120 to flag weight 591 in a matter of hours because of the tips from this this question.

Poor, poor moderators :P

@Benjol Heh. No worries. You got it pretty close.

@GeorgeMarian, remind me where.

Romania, just next door to Hungary. :)

@GeorgeMarian, silly me, the language is substantially different though.

That it is.

I used to know Hungarian. Now, I can sorta recognize it. lol

5:55 AM

Ah, so there was something about Hungarian in there somewhere.. ;)

Yah, I think we talked about it or something at one point. That's probably where the mixup orignated.

anyways, is that beard of yours real? Or are you faking your age too? :)

LOL The beard is very real, though my hair is a bit longer these days.

6:09 AM

Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now!

2

It was 8.9 at the epicenter, at Fukushima it must have been 7

@GeorgeMarian, tell that to the world's media... We're on the other side of the planet and people keep panicking at me... My stock response now is: "Yeah, let's stop all nuclear reactors, but your electricity gets turned off between 6pm and 6am"

@Benjol Heh, I've lived with such conditions. No thanks. :)

My only concern would be overconfidence in future designs due to this. Otherwise, so far I agree with the article. The design seems to have failed well.

@GeorgeMarian, yup, so man up and weigh the risk of nuclear fallout against the certainty of eating rotten food and having no internet access or television all night :)

(Mind you, those last two points might actually be construed as positive for humanity :)

The World Trade Center pancaking was a horrific scene, but it was exactly what was supposed to happen in a catastrophe.

@Benjol lol

@Reno Interesting point, though I have no idea how correct that is. Regardless, it seems the worst part of this was the tsunami not the earthquake. :)

6:17 AM

@GeorgeMarian yeah im not sure too, my source is a friend in japan, we skyped.

These pictures are excellent, and by excellent i mean horrific

3

@Reno Did you see the before and after satellite images linked by Rebecca?

Yeah i saw it , it was on reddit. Every thing was pretty much leveled

@Reno The thing that struck me was the predominance of brown in the after images.

I lived in Chiba city for a year, i'm very attached to japan :(

@GeorgeMarian What strikes me is that it's not like an earthquake, where stuff falls down - you know that people who were in a building will be found in the rubble of that building. With a tsunami all bets are off...

6:29 AM

@Benjol Yup. There was a video posted in here. At first it just seemed like a whole lot of water. Then all of the cars nearby were washed away. Then, many of the buildings nearby were washed away.

Wow. Just looked at those images.

But what does it mean for us?

(Aside from feeling bad and helping to recover with donations or actual volunteer work)

@Moshe That we stop complaining

For a few minutes :(

@Benjol was I complaining?

And, for a few minutes?

This page by the nytimes is a great view of the before and after images (requries javascript, of course)

@Moshe, I said we...

6:32 AM

@Benjol ah. I'm like that some times. I see you said "we".

It's easy to not complain for a few minutes IMHO.

I think the harder things need to be worked on.

@Moshe It can help us understand the power of water? What it means to effed by mother nature? Maybe it can help put some things into perspective? I can go on... :)

I may get permanently kicked from MSO for this but... I think society has been degrading itself as a whole. It's been getting worse for several decades.

We take things for granted.

Everything is coming to us.

Free speech. Free expression. I'm not saying that people should restrict each other, but restrict yourself

Discipline.

@Moshe, I'm not sure that that is ban-worthy...

@Benjol people hate being preached to.

@Moshe Well, eventually it will hit the fan. Whether that be an asteroid, a huge earthquake and regardless of what we may think the cause to be.

@Moshe I'm not sure I know WTF you're talking about. lol

6:37 AM

What scares me is that we've grown up in a generation of zero-effort, people expect to have everything without actually working. And that is clearly non-sustainable. Especially as elsewhere there are people who work 16 hours a day.

@GeorgeMarian I believe in a G-d. I don't believe that hitting the fan stuff.

@Benjol precisely.

Ok, this may sound bad, but I can see an opportunity for using these images for marketing. "See those buildings that remained? We built them!" ;)

@GeorgeM I'm talking about the reaction I'm about to get from you:

See that boat on top of the house? eh... we built that too :)

Cursing, sexual Immorality.

waits for reaction

6:39 AM

@Moshe Sure, I believe in God, not just a god. However, that's not my point. Whether it be Revelations style or simply stuff that we've never put to paper before, something big is bound to happen as some point in the future that we just can't anticipate.

"what defines morality?"

Well, not whatever society has been billing it to be for the last fifty or so years.

We do what feels good instead of what is good.

I don't see how this has anything to do with the earthquake and tsunami...

@GeorgeM as ludicrous as this may sound, I believe that he Gd I believe in has a specific plan for the world.

Big things don't happen for no reason.

Thousands of people don't die for no reason.

Yeah, sure. But who are we to say this is the work of God? Seriously man, that's reading to much into it. It certainly may be, but neither you nor I are qualified to say one way or the other.

That is one of the big mistakes that many religious people make.

@Moshe That goes somewhere I don't want to go, even if it might be true. Think 39-45...

6:43 AM

@GeorgeM I'm not saying that Gd is punishing the Japanese people, I'm just saying thar everything that occurs is the work of Gd and we have to take a message from it.

@Moshe Have you read about the supposed "conversation" between Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr about Quantum Physics?

@Benjol I know you don't want to and neither does anyone else, it's the human disdain and fear of accountability.

@Moshe I take issue with that, seeing as the basic theme of Genesis is the God made the world, everything in it and then let it run.

@GeorgeM no, fraid not.

@GeorgeM, you are correct until "and then let it run"

Einstein, a believer, is supposed to have said "God doesn't play dice." He didn't like all the probability stuff of Quantum Physics. To which Bohr is supposed to have replied "Don't tell God what to do with his dice."

6:46 AM

Where do you get "let it run" from?

@Moshe Not fear of accountability, fear of the absurdity of being "collateral damage" in a nation-sized divine slap-down.

@Moshe You're going to make me quote scripture, aren't you? sigh ok, fine.

@GeorgeMarian Einstein as a believer is apparently an urban myth..

@Benjol Oh?

@GeorgeMarian, he talked about 'god', but I'm not sure that he meant God. I'll try to find some references...

6:48 AM

It's my understanding that Einstein wasn't a believer in the orthodox Jewish sense of the words. I only mention this because Judaism is acknowledged by Christianity and Islam (who both say it was discredited later) but orthodoxy is the unadulterated form of Judaism. Reform and conservative et al all came about a hundred years or so.

5

Q: How to answer the question of Spinoza, Einstein, Atheism and "God"

From time to time I find myself in conversation or debate with theists, and the notion that "Even the greatest scientists believed in God" comes up. Frequently Einstein is mentioned. Einstein said. "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, t...

debate-points science-and-religion einstein spinoza

@Benjol it's not fear of accountability. I don't believe anyone should live in constant fear of divine retribution.

What about feeling good about yourself?

DISCLAIMER: I'm not missionizing or whatever here. Just arguing a point.

@Moshe, if you like preaching you should head on over to atheism.se, they love it over there ;)

@Benjol Ah, interesting.

@Benjol I'd rather avoid those folks. They are as closed minded as myself. ;-)

6:52 AM

lol

Remember, some folks are so open minded their brains fall out.

Seriously though.

@Moshe, remember, there's no merit in being uncompromising unless you're also right :)

@Benjol that's like saying I should go into an argument primed to lose because as happens with many arguments, you win some, you lose some. You don't know which ones you'll win.

So assume losses always.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. :)

@GeorgeMarian Which brings us back to Fukushima :)

6:55 AM

hehe

Here we get into clichès, which are true.

@Benjol - right, which means what for us?

@Moshe That it can be done right?

Sarcastic question: why in the name of anything should I care about a giant tsunami halfway across the world?

Any serious takers?

@GeorgeM again, I'm not preaching.

@Moshe that throwing round truisms about openmindedness doesn't advance any argument at all.

@Benjol I said serious.

But really, why should anyone care. We are programmers, right?

6:58 AM

Conviction is a difficult balancing act - you believe that what you believe is true, but if you are honest you also have to entertain the possibility that you might be wrong.

lol @Moshe you shouldn't get into any serious debates while in this chat room on iOS. :)

@GeorgeM good call on iOS. :p

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