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12:00 AM
I thought that libraries didn't taint the project. At least, that seems to be the case for v3 of the GPL.
 
@TimStone I was pretty sure GPL3 did away with that, sec
 
asininegpl?
 
@GeorgeMarian I thought that was only true for L GPL. I hope I am wrong!
> I'd like to incorporate GPL-covered software in my proprietary system. Can I do this?
> You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system. The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy, redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate GPL-covered software into a non-free system, it would have the effect of making the GPL-covered software non-free too.
> A system incorporating a GPL-covered program is an extended version of that program. The GPL says that any extended version of the program must be released under the GPL if it is released at all. This is for two reasons: to make sure that users who get the software get the freedom they should have, and to encourage people to give back improvements that they make.
 
if it is released at all
A key point for websites.
 
Ok, well, We have a SAAS product. Our customers log into an admin which uses Ext as the widget toolkit. Is that "released"? :-)
 
12:04 AM
Can someone come to you and obtain a copy of the software?
 
Only via our hosted servers
We will not install it on your servers
 
Right, So, you never actually distribute the software in any form to anyone.
 
Oh. I am wrong, thank goodness, @TimStone is right:
> A company is running a modified version of a GPL'ed program on a web site. Does the GPL say they must release their modified sources?
> The GPL permits anyone to make a modified version and use it without ever distributing it to others. What this company is doing is a special case of that. Therefore, the company does not have to release the modified sources.
> It is essential for people to have the freedom to make modifications and use them privately, without ever publishing those modifications. However, putting the program on a server machine for the public to talk to is hardly “private” use, so it would be legitimate to require release of the source code in that special case. Developers who wish to address this might want to use the GNU Affero GPL for programs designed for network server use.
The part I rembered before was:
> However, putting the program on a server machine for the public to talk to is hardly “private” use, so it would be legitimate to require release of the source code in that special case.
wait, yeah, I think that's right
 
Right, writing a thin wrapper is a no-no.
 
is confused
 
12:08 AM
About what? :P
 
Life, the Universe and Everything. ;)
 
1 min ago, by Tim Stone
Right, writing a thin wrapper is a no-no.
 
@TheRenamedException @TimStone - If I have to distribute any .js files / HTML files that use Ext.js then this is ok ... this is done anyway isn't it lol
 
It's mostly to do with non-web libraries that you might write a thin web service wrapper for.
 
Providing if I minify them I provide a non-minified one
 
12:11 AM
Like the purpose of the service is just to call the GPL'ed library outside of the GPL.
 
The real-question is if Ext.js's Async request functions call my JSON API ... what then?
 
Yeah, you don't have to worry about that.
 
Well it seems to me, either a JS engine's RAM or over HTTP calling is calling
It is just a different protocol, one a light call-stack and the other a big fat HTTP call
 
Right, but you didn't give someone the software in the second case.
You gave them access to a service, supported by software you wrote.
It's kind of a dumb distinction, but it exists.
 
What differentiates it? I don't see a difference between .js files calling Ext.js and vice-versa and communication between the API
Is it the protocol? Same machine? ABI?
lol
Confusing
 
12:13 AM
Oh, sorry, there's not any difference.
 
But if you can't use my app WITHOUT ext (because the whole frontend uses Ext windows, grids, etc) then, that doesn't make my app GPLed also?
 
It's not like you have to release your JS files as GPL
 
Ah ok
I thought because my .js files used Ext.js they had to be GPL
under v3
and if my JSON API in Python links AGPL software (which it doesn't, who uses AGPL?) then the API is GPL too
So, is there concensus amongst us that .js files calling Ext.js's code doesn't need to be GPL?
 
@AidenBell I am still not convinced
 
coughs
 
12:16 AM
I SAW THAT!
;-)
 
It is what it is, right? Heh
 
@TheRenamedException Me neither. Hypothetically, if .js files got GPLd , if that was the case, then logically the server-side API is also GPL
@TimStone - lold, read and I also tweeted it
(im joking, who tweets? not I)
 
:P
I don't think that JavaScript really counts as "releasing" the software, since it's just an implementation detail...but that might be an area of contention.
 
@AidenBell Who tweets? Twits.
 
I actually think someone may have asked this on Programmers.
 
12:18 AM
I would like to read that
 
@TimStone - I am almost hard-line open-source in terms of community spirit, but commercially I need to know what the score is before I code a whole ton using a .js UI TK
 
Which is funny that I know that on account of not being a member, one sec.
 
But I want to switch away from Ext anyway
Their drag-and-drop sortable grids are lacking
 
@TheRenamedException - I was looking at qooxdoo
 
oooh I haven't seen that one
 
12:19 AM
It is LGPL and looks alright
 
I like...
ug, need tags
 
@TimStone - just don't run the Unit Test runner and select "all tests" on a low-end machine lol
 
@AidenBell The one I have my eye on is smartclient.com/index.jsp#_Welcome
 
Bottom line here, providing the server-side stuff is safe ... the world and their mum can have my .js files in the clear
@TheRenamedException - I do like a base of HTML though, that thing looked like a 100% dynamic DOM
 
@AidenBell Yes. Ext is also
 
12:23 AM
@TheRenamedException - oh well, in for a penny I suppose
Right guys, I would love to dive into this GPL issue ... but I am due in bed.
Thanks @drachenstern @TimStone @TheRenamedException
 
Later @AidenBell!
 
byes! If I come to a conclusion I will post it here :D
 
Oh right!
 
The rest API code cannot be considered the same as the EXT code
 
@AidenBell I remember now, the Ext JS people are really assholes about this.
 
12:26 AM
On ios
 
I think that their GPL interpretation is flawed, mainly because they want to force you to buy a commercial license.
 
Grr
One either uses GPL or not, no flawed allowed
GPL is copyrighted and may not be altered, or it is nullified
 
I still feel my position about this issue is correct based on the actual terms of the GPL, but I had forgotten that the Ext JS people explicitly spell out this scenario on their site.
 
Then they are altering the GPL and voiding the GPL. Pretty explicit.
 
2
A: Is this scenario in compliance with GPLv3?

Oscar CarballalI'm not an expert in software licensing (hell, i'm not even a proper programmer) but I think you're not violating the GPLv3 terms, and my reasons are: Your program is not based on ExtJS, it's used as an external library. You're not making modifications or redistributions of that software. In th...

Yeah, but they're FSF members, so they'll say "No, this is how the GPL is supposed to be."
Then they'll bring out their FSF lawyers. :P
 
12:34 AM
GPL is supposed to be a virus.
 
So I see you're using argument of "agreement of my peers" ;) won't work I tell you :p
 
Stallman is scary. ;)
 
@TimStone I second this
@TimStone this was my vague memory also
 
Licensing is always a problem area for me. On the one hand, I think it's wrong that you could be so generous as to contribute code to the community at large and then someone comes along, wraps it up in a thin layer of code, and tries to sell off what was majorily your hard work. On the other hand, I want to get paid for working hard on certain things that I code, and I don't see that being practical if I have to release the source code into the open for everything that I do.
 
I hear you!
 
12:44 AM
It'd be way too easy for some much larger company to scoop up the software and cash in on the hosting/support dollars just because of their size, so it's not like that's a viable route if everyone can do whatever with the code.
 
It's a problem for us also. We are a small company and our intuitive UI design is what sets us apart. If we had to give that away, we'd be out of business
I mean, yes, we give you the source code. But you don't have the right to modify it
or reuse it even
 
o_o
Down to 1 day on UI and Server Fault, that's crap
I'm pretty damn sure I looked at questions yesterday, hrm.
 
say what now?
 
Fanatic reset :P
Oh wow, on Apple/Stack Apps/Server Fault/UI
 
oh, damnit!
 
12:48 AM
..And Gaming Meta, hrm.
That's rather unfortunate.
Ah well, guess I should actually participate more, then I wouldn't have that issue. ;)
 
LOL
Yeah my script isn't working anymore
 
Speaking of scripts...Since I'm still waiting on stuff for work, I suppose I should get back to working on that Town Hall script.
 
:-)
I need to find some food; I am excited to see what this script does :-D
@The me in the THC room when you have something to show me
 
Will do
 
NO I DO NOT MEAN THE MARIJUANA ROOM!
 
1:03 AM
Sure, sure! tells @RebeccaChernoff on you
 
She started it! Where do you think the THC originates from? :-)
THAT'S TOWN HALL CHAT!!!
;-)
 
1:22 AM
o:
 
wow this is special even for this room
 
the 5 or 6 messages above my last
/me goes back to trying to remember my godaddy id
 
I'm pretty sure there is no "special" in here. |:
 
haha other kinda special ;)
 
1:36 AM
putting it in quotes doesn't differentiate it enough? (;
 
i'm quite suprised my personal domain is NOT expired ... apparently i bought it for like 5 years and only let the hosting expire when i was bored with it
haha whoops missed that
 
nah gmail search "godaddy.com" i know the password not hte acct # :)
 
well there's a Retrieve Account Number on that page I linked... (;
 
2:01 AM
@Rebecca, @Zypher ? Do either if yu know anything about backpacks?
 
Yup. I know that you can walk into a store and buy one. Or surf into a store if you prefer.
 
Eh.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:22 AM
> Many people would rather be certain they're miserable than risk being happy - Robert Anthony
 
hahaha
why such a depressing message?
 
3:41 AM
wouldn't output be out of scope on the return here?
2
A: Convert numerical value to a string filled with a character in JavaScript

Hamishfunction spaces(size) { for(var output = ""; size > 0; size--) output += " "; return output; }

@Zypher oh idk, just a random quote
 
fair 'nuff
 
4:20 AM
0
A: What will you call a network admin who blocks stackoverflow?

MosheSO is a great website, but it's easy to misuse it and and get sucked in. That is bad for productivity. Just ask the folks over at chat. As for calling a Server Admin names - I advise you not to. It will just upset them and get you in trouble. I can assure you that it won't accomplish what you wa...

 
doing his job?
ducks
hovers finger over noise or pointless
 
@Zypher that's a trigger I can pull with no problem
 
0
Q: Bug in tag privileges

ircmaxellI have access to edit tag wikis even though I do not have the 20k required to attain the privledge or the required bronze tag. A tag wiki I created: lighttpd, yet I only currently have 19765 rep, do not have the bronze in that tag, and am shown on the privileges page as not having the privilege.

can anyone confirm?
 
mmm making my friends jealous about my job ... EXCELLENT
 
lol
 
4:29 AM
what were your edits?
 
@Zypher haha.
 
> I continue to be extremely jealous of the insanely geeky rad stuff you get to do. We need to get together and I want to copy your brain
 
@drachenstern: I created the wiki (none existed before). I can do another if you'd like
 
status-Norwich
Erm, autocorrect.
status-no-repro
Norwich is cool though.
 
@ircmaxell idk, let it go for a bit, see what MSO says
 
4:32 AM
fair enough
I just saw it and figured it was a bug with the implementation (considering it was just rolled out)
 
What does a rep-recalc predict?
Hmmm, I can propose a new tag wiki but it still goes in the edit queue
your rep graph indicates you're actually a hundred or so past 20k
but that's just a graph
 
Hmmm
How do I do a recalc?
(And perhaps it went into the edit queue... Which could make sense, but I see it live, unless it was already edited)
 
visit the /reputation route
I see it live too
could be the new mods approving quickly
 
19767
 
@ircmaxell you see your edits live but everyone else doesn't until they are approved ...
 
4:38 AM
@Zypher I see his edits tho
 
ahhh
 
yea so i don't think its that :)
 
unless it was lightning fast approval...
 
I have no way to know
 
that too :) although i don't think they apply to wiki's but meh wasn't paying close enough attention to what was going on ther e
 
4:41 AM
hehehe, if it came down to it, I could make a trivial edit to another tag and we can see if it's immediate
 
We could
 
5:00 AM
not sure if this is the right place to ask, but is there anywhere you can view any posts of yours that have been flagged?
 
how so?
What exactly are you trying to find out?
 
I'm a little sad that 10k isn't the line anymore. It's the end of an era
 
Ooh. That sounds like a fun^H^H^Huseful tool.
 
@MichaelMrozek not that I recall.
@MichaelMrozek that's been commented many times on Meta lately...
 
I can't actually figure out how to do it. I also didn't get an alert about it on SO (I did on Unix), so it might not be enabled there
 
5:13 AM
It might be getting rolled out...
So I think I've had all the fun I can stand for one night...
 
I sat in an 8.5 hour meeting today, and I have another one tomorrow. I honestly thought, near the end of the day, that I might be going mad.
 
I think I've edited the RFC2SE post 10 times in as many minutes. Oy!
 
5:31 AM
Well, it looks like it was a bug
 
Jin
yawn
 
-vszvv--sv-s-z
gah
 
CURSE YOU DVORAK!
 
nah, that was my cat (;
 
5:39 AM
Is your cat possibly named Dvorak?
3
 
negative.
 
@Moshe I object to your insinuations about my lack of productivity! :)
 
My cat is asleep on my lap. You should get a nice sleeping cat, instead of a wandering keyboard-attacking cat
 
Have you learned Dvorak yet? (;
 
You told me to wait until Friday :P
 
5:50 AM
...and you listened?
iiiiiiiiiinteresting.
 
I'd forgotten you even told me; I just felt a compulsion to learn Dvorak on Friday
 
haha win
 
It drives me crazy when I report an easily confirmed bug and it gets n views and <n upvotes. CLICK THE ARROW. CLICK IT
 
The down arrow? I can do that.
 
6:05 AM
I was going to flag it as a duplicate, but luckily for you I might have just been imagining someone reporting that, so you get an up vote instead. :P
0
Q: math with regexp in mod_rewrite

egasimusHi. I'm trying to do the following: I have the url: http://www.example.com/9999 and I want it to seamlessly redirect to: http://www.example.com/page.php?id=4999 Can regular expressions in mod_rewrite do maths?

(@TheRenamedException ...It's like something out of a nightmare)
 
yay ... 30k on meta ... now what?
 
SO is offline for maintenance o_O
 
deploying will be back in 1 sec
 
6:22 AM
I need 15k, so I can protect stuff
 
@waffles, is Citizen Patrol a new badge? I've just got it on every site (I think), and I haven't done any flagging recently.
In fact I'm pretty sure I've never flagged on EL&U or Photography
 
yeah the query was buggy, Jarrod fixed it
 
Hrm. Was there really a bug there though @waffles? My understanding was its previous purpose was simply for spam/offensive flags and that now the badge criteria has been changed.
 
perhaps ... I did not review the query
 
@RebeccaChernoff Now it would include 'flag for attention'?
 
6:35 AM
I am eating waffles right now.
they are really good i highy recommend them :)
 
Yes, flagging for mod attention was included. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/59445/…
 
@RebeccaChernoff if you are feeling bored ... the priv wikis on meta need some tlc , we need to sync them across the network as well soon
 
I can add it to my list and try to look at them tomorrow. Got a few things I want to finish up before bed.
 
no worries
 
7:28 AM
I'm the best:
I should probably go to sleep now
 
What's with the long list of new citizen patrol badges on MSO?
 
you now get that for mod flags
 
> Flagging for moderator attention now counts for the Citizen Patrol badge. This change applies retroactively.
 
Ah, I see.
Adding arbitrary users thingy is finally coming to the elections page, hrmp...
Well, looks like they've finally given 15k users the protect questions priv
I'm just going to earn 3k more and protect every 'famous question' that comes my way...
 
7:45 AM
Ooo, the option actually shows up now
 
Not yet finished with the interface though, so don't all rush out and compare yourselves to the election candidates just yet...
 
@YiJiang, excellent!
 
-1 No Generalist, I like my moderators well-rounded
4
 
@MichaelMrozek, LOL
 
@MichaelMrozek where have I seen that?
hehe
 
7:47 AM
@YiJiang ive finally starting removing hi and thanks :) it makes sense now, thanks
 
@MichaelMrozek, -1 Talkative, I like my users on chat :)
 
@Benjol thnks for the query!
(on the hard question badge)
 
@Trufa, you're welcome, by the way your website was down yesterday..
 
He has 12 thousand answers, god...
Also, somewhat strangely, he doesn't seem to have Electorate. goes to check profile to see if it's a bug
 
@Benjol oh damn, yep it is still
@Benjol the thing is I was stupid enough to post my passwords on an SO post
 
7:51 AM
@YiJiang Most people don't unless they specifically try for it; they have too many answer votes
 
!!
had to change all my my_sql passwords
@Benjol It is just a dummy website anyway
 
youre not missing much
 
@Trufa A dummy website where the mysql message shows your name :)
 
@YiJiang No generalist!!!
 
7:52 AM
Ooo. I like the "elected"
 
@MichaelMrozek I was lazy with that and just displayed it if the user has a diamond and the election is over
 
mother of god :o
 
@Benjol fair point
 
@YiJiang Yeah, that's fine; I just meant it looks nice
 
So if you look for Jeff on Webmasters he would have 'pro tem' on his profile
Which is kind of funny, but unavoidable
 
7:53 AM
@Benjol I will have to start caring about security eventually
 
@YiJiang, feature suggestion:
 
@Benjol +1
 
what ? ... the force is not even strong with them
 
Oh, you can customize badges. Very cool
 
TimPosts's gravatar fits the evil overlord meme perfectly :)
StackAcademy™ - Who wants to be a benevolent dictator?
 
8:30 AM
-1
Q: How to implement body scanner in android.

Amit ThaperI want to create an application for the security guards to check the person whether he has some illegal material or not. So thats why i want to ask can i trace the human body and see what he put on there body. If yes then how can we do this. Please help if you know about this. I have doing lots o...

:D
i want a shaving kit in android too
and if i can if you can give me the code for creating a light saber beam using android api it would be just sweet
 
@Reno There's one with a light saber sound for the iPhone :) And a colleague downloaded an app yesterday which says it reads your heart rate if you put your finger on the camera ;)
 
@Benjol oh iPhone has apps for everthing :)
 
@Reno good suggestion, (see my comment :)
 
lol :D
 
Wow the "share on Facebook and Twitter" just got a bit more 'in your face'! (They're both blocked from here anyway)
 
8:41 AM
@Benjol There are addons for both Firefox and Chrome that will remove any and all of those social networking widgets you find on web pages
Not sure if they'd work for those though
 
In fairness, the StackOverflow seed audience has pretty much run its course now for new SE sites. So social networking (and google) are the only way we're going to get new people in. Robert has said as much:
> The days of successfully creating sites solely from existing audience that frequents Area 51 are just about over. The original Stack Overflow-driven crowd is all but tapped out of interests; that is to say, any site that was going to be created by that audience has already been created.
How do you include the title for an image in markdown? (a la xkcd)
 
@Benjol In the [2] image_url bit, add a title in quotes, like [2] image_url "My wonderful title"
 
ok, thanks
 
is on a Ask Ubuntu editing spree
Holy effing hell. Punches the moron who rejected that last edit
Getting my name plastered all over the homepage of Ask Ubuntu
 
9:06 AM
They're really that bad at asking questions?
Interesting, written example of the l/r difficulty for japanese, I'd never stopped to think that it isn't just a question of pronunciation, but of hearing (though I should know better):
4
A: What does ‘Sport’ mean when you say ‘the new Apple iPad sports cameras for video conferencing’?

KosmonautThis is an established use of the word sport; it is fairly informal, so I wouldn't write it in an academic paper, but it is not particularly unusual. The relevant definition of the transitive verb, sport, from Merriam-Webster: to display or wear usually ostentatiously : boast. "sporting expe...

 
@YiJiang JOC what spoken languages do they teach you guys at school ?
 
@Reno English and Chinese
 
In the comments: interpletation & reast
 
@Benjol Huh, interesting. I've always thought it was a problem with pronunciation too, though in Chinese pinyin has two distinct r and l sound, they're nothing like what English has
It's almost bizarre how his comments are almost spelled entirely correctly except for those l/r mix up
 
@YiJiang, when I was in France I quickly realised that the key to being able to pronounce something is actually being able to hear the difference. It's quite frustrating when you realise that people are saying what to them are two completely different sounds, and you can't tell the difference :)
@YiJiang That's what got me thinking, I even wondered if it was trolling, but it doesn't seem like it.
 
9:14 AM
Its a korean problem too : they can say "Sea" ( its pronounced C) or L (pronounced as R)
 
@Benjol Definitely not, good faith, remember? He sounds more confused than anything else
 
In French there are several, the difference between 'ou' and 'u', between 'an' and 'on'. On the other hand, they can't here the difference between ship and sheep, (or sheet and ...)
 
@balpha Not sure if you're the right person to ask, but it seems like now only 20k users have tag wiki edit privileges; the old 2k + top 20 or 100 upvotes system seems to be disabled now
Is that intentional?
 
I think so (because it makes the whole thing simpler), but not sure
let me check
yep, that's solely a rep-based privilege now.
 
@balpha Is there a Meta post discussing this? I don't particularly like this new system, but hrm...
 
9:30 AM
sam announced it here:
1
A: Don't show suggested edits that I can't approve

wafflesI made a couple of changes that may help alleviate this problem. We suppress the queue notification if there are fewer than 5 pending items in the queue 20k users can approve all tag wiki changes I agree it makes sense hiding the items, however it is a reasonably expensive calculation that I...

but I don't think anyone has complained yet, so you'll have to do that :)
 
I thought you could propose an edit, though...?
blog:
> (and with some different caveats, wiki pages too)
 
yes
 
not sure what the exact caveats are...
 
9:47 AM
I need jQuery debugging here, something very weird is going on :(
 
I think there's a jQuery plugin for that...
 
@MarcGravell >_<
 
@YiJiang, when do we get to test fly the userid?
 
Hi all! :)
> You've earned the "Citizen Patrol" badge. See your profile
Hmm, I don't think I've flagged any posts…
 
@Nyuszika7H Ever?
 
9:56 AM
@Benjol except some comments and chat messages
 
> Flagging for moderator attention now counts for the Citizen Patrol badge. This change applies retroactively.
 
@Nyuszika7H its because you hang out with us citizen patrollers ...
 
Oh, yeah. :) I've flagged some questions for CW.
 
10:46 AM
hello
 
meh code golf with Java sucks ...
status-not-amused
 

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